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GameplayMechanics to return, to scrap.

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EzioAltair17's picture
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So anyone want any old gameplay mechanic to return in ACIII

If so, say so.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which

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Mechanics to return without changes:
- Defense break (from AC1, not the kicking crap from later games)
- Sidestepping/dodge in combat, which was great
- INVESTIGATIONS. If I can have it, I'd want to get these back in the exact same form. HUD off and just wandering about in the city trying to find information.
- RANDOMIZED GUARDS. Why do later games do not have this? I mean, the problem in AC1 always was when you messed up and got exposed, all the guards in the streets around you, who were walking around randomly, would get to you. Now you just take out four guys.
- Counter steal and counter with empty hand. Good additions to the combat system.
- Shock and awe from AC1, or something like it. Make the hidden blade special again.
- Pre-assassination information. I like to plan. Give me the opportunity.

Mechanics to leave out:
- Side-stuff not dealing with either collectibles, tombs or assassinating. That means letter deliveries, renovating, races and all that crap. Cut it out, it's not relevant and hardly fun. They're chores.
- Bombs. Overpowered.
- Hookblade. It was fun for some time, but I don't feel it should return.
- Killstreaks. Overpowered.
- Medecin. Overpowered. Or you could lower the maximum amount to 3 or so and use a regenerative health system, which makes more sense in terms of the Animus and all that.
- The amount of swords/daggers/armour. Seriously, 5 swords, 5 daggers, 3 sets of armour is all we really need.
- Making us put on armour and then having no option to de-equip it is a horrible idea.

Mechanics to return with a change:
- Crossbow. Manual aiming, and where you shoot should affect the outcome. Head=instant kill, legs=exposed or something.
- Gun. Slower/Manual aiming.
- AC1 style investigations are probably not going to happen. So if you'd bring them back with a change, I suggest making them more diverse, but not like they're chores (bring this box to there and you'll get information, or collecting a bunch of flags).

Maybe I'll add more if I think of them.

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"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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Return with a change:
- Hookblade, but instead of being able to use it on any building ever, only use it at certain spots. Kind of like the merchandise lifts, except upgraded and more modern-ish with the hookblade. Kind of like how in inFAMOUS 2, you could grind up vertical power lines and shoot up onto a rooftop. Just.. Not that dramatic.
- Den Defense, but choose your units ahead of time and they will defend automatically, while you as the Assassin character have to sneak around and stealth kill enemy commanders or sabotage important formations of enemies by playing actual Assassin's Creed.

The rest of the things that I kind of want are in this thread:
http://thehiddenblade.com/aciii-sidemissions

Most of them involve sidemissions.

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I was hoping this topic would come. Smile And I have to agree with some of the stuff you mentioned, Phi.
INVESTIGATIONS
Yeah, we really need them. What I would prefer is if a certain amount of assassination contracts or other missions were available for each assassination and that they would all provide some useful info.
Shock and awe from AC1
I remember it was brought up once in chat if kill streaks were based off that. But shock and awe is better since you can use it only on whatever guard is in shock/awe at the current moment and usually have a few seconds to do so.
RANDOMIZED GUARDS
Completely agree. It's not as fun if you take out a whole guard group and there aren't any nearby guards in that area to detect you. In AC1 it was frustrating because I think the guards respawned after the area is reinitialized and get suspicious by seeing there former dead selves.
Medicine
I think that your health should be split up into a few sections, and you can regenerate health normally until a section is full. To heal up another section you will have to take medicine.

And a few other things.

Taunting should be brought back. Even AC1 had taunting (called grab break, but when you use it in combat Altair points to the enemy).

Fewer loading screens. I don't see why it has to load when you equip an outfit. It never had to when you dye your robes or change your cape. And why does it load when you complete a replayed memory? It never does when you beat the memory the first time. Puzzled In AC1 if you failed a mission by getting detected you could leave the area to restart the mission. They should do something like that, kind of like in VR training where Ezio gets teleported back to the starting place and the area gets refreshed.

Cool effects. I like how in AC1 when you don't have any health bars the screen flashes different colors (looks cool in stunts). In the other games there is also an effect, but it's harder to get to no health squares, for stunts at least (if you're at full health falling won't take you below one health square without killing you). I hope AC3 has a different effect besides the grid lines.

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I agree phi, the health system is the ultimate trolling device on gaurds.And i think it should be converted into the sych bar fom AC1 again.It saves money,speaking of money....

If there is one thing i want out its the Armor ,its unnecessary.big, bulky armor in that case. If they decide to bring armor back, i really hope and pray,its not giant bulky armor.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which

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I've always been against armor ever since I saw THBers in cutscenes without them. Ezio looked better without it and you really don't need armor if you know how to control him. I actually miss his first outfit. Crying

INVESTIGATIONS

These would be a welcome addition to me. I always preferred eavesdropping and pickpocket missions. If they could include those, helping other Assassins/guilds out for info, multiplayer-style tracking of an informant, etc then I'd be a happy camper.

RANDOMIZED GUARDS

What Aurel said. You can clear out entire areas in the newer games. I think the developers forgot that "Reinitializing"
meant setting the memory the way it was to the ancestor at that time, not how the player made it.

Medicine
I think we all agree that the AC1 health bar should be back.

aurllcooljay wrote:
I don't see why it has to load when you equip an outfit... In AC1 if you failed a mission by getting detected you could leave the area to restart the mission. They should do something like that, kind of like in VR training where Ezio gets teleported back to the starting place and the area gets refreshed.

Yes and yes. I hate changing one aspect of my clothing and having to wait for the game to think about it.

I've already stated my distaste in the "If you're seen, you suck" mission structure of Ezio's games. Yes, I'm a stealthy player, but they're pressing it on us too much.

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I made a post on the official forums in one of the topics outlining most of my ideas. It's more elaborate than what I posted above, so here we go.

INVESTIGATIONS. I want to know what atrocities my targets commit and why they should be put to rest. "They're Templars so they should die" is something you'd read in a shitty fanfic. Give the targets personality, like they had in AC1 and AC2. Don't bomb us with information, make it optional. Like AC1, I suppose, although many people will cry about how repetitive it was. Yeah, it is if you don't look for the investigations yourself but rely on the GPS. Take my advice and play the game without the damn thing on. Also, no looking on the map. You'll probably be forced to abandon the idea of doing all investigations, as it can take quite some time to find that last one. I'd like to see something like this in AC3 as well, although I think it ought to be optional.

ASSASSINATIONS. Not the scripted pieces of crap in AC: Revelations. ****MASSIVE, HUGE, GIGANTIC SPOILERS FOR AC:R AHEAD**** Seriously, I tried doing cool stuff on Leandros, but the only way you can kill him is with the hidden blade, which happens in a scene. Next up is the Imperial North Den Captain, which was a lot of fun. Tarik, scripted. You can use a bomb, but that's it. The Crusader (Altaïr memory) is alright, but still scripted with it's forced stealth restriction. Sentinel, scripted chase, killed by your apprentice. Abbas, scripted entirely. Shahkulu, scripted to death. If you take him out with your hidden blade before taking out the archers, you desynchronize. If you try anything but the hidden blade, you desynchronize (maybe a dropping down and performing a bare hand kill is possible, but it's difficult). Manual Palaiologos, boring and scripted. You have to chase him and when you catch up, you can get him to jump into the water or you can defeat him in combat. Ahmet, scripted, but as final boss, this is the only target I'm actually okay with.
So, what have we got? Scripted, scripted, scripted, scripted, scripted,... Yeah, no. AC1 and AC2 were great with the assassinations. Brotherhood barely contained any assassinations (although the Banker was alright aside from the damn detection restriction). Revelations was overscripted. I want assassinations and I want freedom. Make it a problem to get detected.

PROPER COMBAT. You're relying on artificial restrictions to enforce a certain playstyle (desynchronized upon detection). I think this is just bad game design and changing combat should fix the problem. AC1 did this totally right, AC2 a little less and AC:B made it just pure crap. "I want to feel like a god when in combat." It's possible in AC1, look up shock and awe. It's not that difficult. AC:R was just AC:B made more frustrating. The symptoms were fixed (combat being ridiculously easy), but the problem wasn't adressed (combat is still horribly unbalanced and no fun).

RANDOMIZED GUARDS. Why did you even take this out? I mean, the thing about AC1 that made you be careful was that, should you enter open conflict, guards would come rushing from all sides and you'd have a big fight on your hands. Now you're lucky if you can get a fight with 8 guards outside of the Janissary camp, because two patrols cross paths. It's possible to wipe out all guards almost an entire district in later games, because there are no randomized guards. Besides, I also think they add to the atmosphere.

QUICKSTEPPING and DEFENSE BREAK. Quickstepping was a great feature in AC2, allowing you to quickly get somewhere while in open conflict. Excellent work. As for defense break, I'm talking AC1-style defense break, whipping up the sword to deal a good hit. Kicking someone in the groin, really? If they'd really react like that, Ezio should've been able just to whip out his hidden blade and stab them in the neck.

BETTER STORYTELLING. A hundred cutscenes and a million scripted sequences isn't good storytelling. If I want that, I'll watch a movie.

NO. DAMN. SIDECRAP. An assassin assassinates. As Joey put it so well on THB: "Hopefully it [AC3] will let players feel like we're an ASSASSIN and not an errand boy that kills guards in between getting milk for our arthritic stepdad." An assassin is not a postman or an athlete, not the helpful guy who will beat up your husband because he was unfaithful, or a professional gambler/brawler/whatever. An assassin is the person that will do anything to achieve peace, most likely involving killing a bunch of high-people or using other nefarious means. AN ASSASSIN IS NOT A GOD-DAMNED ERRAND BOY.

I'm not asking you to go back to how things were in AC1. Mix it up between AC1 and AC2. Investigating a bit, telling the story through a mission a bit. A few cutscenes, but not too much. A scripted final boss is okay, but not all the time. Free-form assassinations where we can plan beforehand. Stuff that makes us feel like a real assassin. That's what I'd like to see in AC3, and I think many will agree with me.
Also, weather would be so totally freaking awesome, but it's really secondary to what I've noted above.

_________________

"Betraying the Assassins is never good for one's health."
"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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I think I said before that the assassinations were better in ACR than ACB, but that was my first playthrough, following the instructions on-screen, not thinking about what I was doing. I thought some of the assassinations were of my own doing, but replaying them, I found that I was doing what the game wanted me to do all along. A little embarrassing, but I feel I should correct my assumption.

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Even though I've only played ACI once, they are certain key elements that I want in the next ACIII.

DRAMATIC CAMERA
What this means is that the camera will stick close behind the main character (just like Altair). Remember when you meet the person you're gonna assassinate, and the camera will will shift perspective? Remember seeing all that drama will Altair next to you, as if you were one with the crowd? Remember those glitches, where you had to press a button when they flashed on screen so that the camera would pan on the victem's face? I want that. Or, there can be multiple camera angles set up, and the player can toggle between each one of them.

CUTSCENE
Ever played Batman: AA or AC? Remember that they are very few cutscenes, and most of the plot elements and characters were revealed through dialogue? That should be like that. The character should just speak, and the audience should just listen. Saves time, saves animation, and I don't have to see the Animus constantly flicker between a cutscene and the game itself.

COMBAT
At some point, there has to be more than just this. I mean, waiting for the enemy to counter so you can start your kill streak is just ridiculous. Sure you can attack first (and if there guarding, just kick them), but that takes a while to start up, and meanwhile, guards just happen to make the choice to attack. There needs to be more substanance.
Remember the elite Janissairies? Remember how they took at least 3 couters to attack, but each time you do that your kill streak ends? I was thinkign that Brutes have 2 "bars" like that, and that you can continue your kill streak. You can also sidestep (lets bring that back), adn that will continue your kill streak flow, too.

ECONOMY
Let me tell you - I like the economy. It's fun, innovating, and keeps you tied up. However, there has to be a risk factor. Something dangerous. Something that will prevent you from getting a ton of flourins and have nothing to spend it on when you buy everything. Make medicine, armor, and weapons a TON more expensive.

Oh, and make Ezio loot a treasure chest faster than 2.5 bloody seconds...

MEDICINE
Bring back the ACI bar. Screw medicine entirely. Either make that thing expensive, rare, or hard to find.

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JoeyFogey wrote:
I thought some of the assassinations were of my own doing, but replaying them, I found that I was doing what the game wanted me to do all along.

follow these instructions, would you kindly?

Things will not calm down, Daniel Jackson. They will in fact calm up

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ROB_88 wrote:
JoeyFogey wrote:
I thought some of the assassinations were of my own doing, but replaying them, I found that I was doing what the game wanted me to do all along.

follow these instructions, would you kindly?

ROB_88 wrote:
follow these instructions, would you kindly?

ROB_88 wrote:
would you kindly?

*goes and gets stomped on by a Big Daddy*

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How about an Animus interface that allows us to create our own races?

Players are allowed to create their own path for their timed race. One can add restrictions such as not getting detected, not killing any guards/civilians, and not getting injured.

Players will also be able to upload their racing path to the world, where other people can rate other's Race Path, as well as play on it.

Just some fruitful thought.

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I would like that system that Vesferatu suggested, what with many games like LittleBigPlanet, ModNation and inFAMOUS 2 doing that "make your own stuff, share it with the world and let others play it" philosophy.

It shouldn't be too difficult to implement or anything, considering a few other games have already done it, and rather than only races, we should be able to have other kinds of missions as well. I believe I may have mentioned this some other time, but I forgot where.

Just let us play with the basic Animus white and red blocks in a VR like empty map/level-builder environment.
It doesn't have to be super complicated, and can always be patched later, but just something to start us off with Smile

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I can picture user-created levels made like the Tony Hawk Pro Skater park creator. It was very simple and AC wont need many diverse types of tools.

1. steps
2. swinging bars
3. lift
4. that swinging thing you use for corners (I forget what it's called)
5. beams
6. climbing points (The "rock climbing" from the VR missions in ACB)

Stuff like that. And for races, you can easily place checkpoint markers anywhere you want. Maybe even a "target creator". Use parts of NPCs/actual targets from the story and create your own target you go after for a challenge map. Maybe even have the ability to make the targets look like your Xbox live friends (maybe Playstation Home avatars could be used for PS3 targets?).

We're a bunch of geniuses here.

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Yah know. If ubi would just come on this site, look at some of our ideas.Add them in the game. It would probably be 95% better than what they are coming up with.

But seriously, really awesome ideas.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which

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I wouldn't be surprised if Ubisoft was among one of our forum members...blending in with the crowd...slowly analyzing our discussions...yet strangely not taking them into consideration.

Weird...

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Weird... in a spooooookyyyyyy kind of way.

(Have you ever noticed that every way you spell "weird" it looks weird?)

I would certainly hope that Ubisoft would take THB *very* seriously. It's like (to me, at least) that famous question that Steve Jobs asked John Sculley, "Do you want to sell sugar water all your life, or do you want to change the world?" Ubi has been giving us sugar water.

"Now you shall get an earful of my beloved sword! Behold, Pillow Talk! Let's rock, baby!"

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Ubisoft has changed the video-game world with its ground-breaking animation, detailed historical cities, and a innovative plot.

Too bad they sunk so low ever since Brotherhood debut.

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I agree with you completely, Vesferatu. That's why is extra disappointing that they have settled for selling sugar water.

"Now you shall get an earful of my beloved sword! Behold, Pillow Talk! Let's rock, baby!"

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What lied in that sugar water was a terrible story with absolutely no drama, intelligence, or moral ambiguity. That's what made the 1st game so great. You'd think Ezio would be a much more philosophical and educated man. You'd think he'd question his cause for revenge, creating the basis for the Revelations. But no. It's just go here, do this, stab that; ect.

I'd understand why ACII didn't have a strong story. Ezio was young, impatient, and just wanted revenge. He didn't have any time to contemplate what he was doing, and by the time he did, it was at the end of the game. ACII was to emphasis the game-play while traded of some intelligent storytelling. Fair enough.

But Brotherhood had no excuse to screw up. Ezio is in his 40's throughout the entire game. Brotherhood increased the game-play more with Leo's machines and some new mechanics, but again: the intelligent storytelling was lost. NO EXCUSE!

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Vesferatu wrote:
NO EXCUSE!

I use that phrase when it's -5 outside and I go for a run. Tongue

But anyway, I think you're absolutely right. In AC1, the emphasis was on storytelling and the gameplay mechanics were used to that end. From AC2 onwards, it got much more gimmicky, focusing on gameplay and telling the story on the side.

_________________

"Betraying the Assassins is never good for one's health."
"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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Synchronization has been a huge debate ever since it debut in Brotherhood. But I actually like it. It gives players a purpose to accomplish. However, I would want it to be available only after you completed the memory on your 1st try. Let me explain...

In Brotherhood, there's a mission where Ezio is discovering one of the Lairs of Romulus for the 1st time (Nero's Golden Palace). For full synchronization, the player had to get the key in less than 8 minutes. This forces many players (myself included) to blindly forward without taking in the atmosphere. Not to mention skipping all the hidden treasure chests. I didn't have much time to observe the intricate architecture and textures.

Now one can make the argument that players can simply ignore the 100% synch option and go at their leisurely pace, and that is true to a certain extent. But that would mean that players would have to play the mission again and complete that optional objective just to get that 100% synch. That feels like a chore

That option should be made after you completed the memory on your 1st try because it would give players a sense of accomplishment - that after playing the memory, they know how to do it better. Rebecca would have to introduce another Animus function that allows this kind of "memory lag".

Comments?

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In your argument, you explain how it feels like a chore, having to replay the mission after you leisurely forgo getting 100% Synch. At the same time, you introduce an alternative, the game FORCING you to replay the mission in order to get it at all. Please explain again how that is better? Some players will not enjoy that, just saying. But I'm curious as to your response.

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DarkAlphabetZoup:

In your argument, you explain how it feels like a chore, having to replay the mission after you leisurely forgo getting 100% Synch. At the same time, you introduce an alternative, the game FORCING you to replay the mission in order to get it at all. Please explain again how that is better? Some players will not enjoy that, just saying. But I'm curious as to your response.

My apologies. Perhaps I didn't type it properly.

What I was trying to state was that the 100% synchronization option isn't AVAILABLE until AFTER you first completed it when you play the story. After you've beaten it in your 1st try, the option to get 100% synchronization will be AVAILABLE. There can be multiple objectives to complete, such as not getting hit, completing it within a time frame, or not using a certain weapon. Players can set multiple restrictions and post the results on leaderboards. This will encourage players to replay memories.

My argument for this is that players won't be pressured to complete a memory at 100% when they first play the game. My argument is that I want the players to immerse themselves in the game's atmosphere and gameplay, NOT some mere objectives.

COUNTER-ARGUMENT: Some players can merely ignore the objectives to get a 100% synch and play the game while enriching themselves in the atmosphere. They don't mind replaying the game. Other players can get a 100% synch WHILE AT THE SAME TIME play the game while absorbing it's atmosphere.

RESPONCE: Maybe it's just me, but the idea of completing a memory within certain restrictions WHILE you're playing the game for the 1st time...just puts pressure on me. It breaks away from the "go anywhere, do anything," philosophy. I imagine that timer clicking in my head, telling to to finish the memory quickly. Maybe it's just my gameplay style. Maybe it's just me.

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FUCK 100% SYNC.

I'm a completionist and I hate this. Totally ruins the immersion.

_________________

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"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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There can be multiple objectives to complete, such as not getting hit, completing it within a time frame, or not using a certain weapon. Players can set multiple restrictions and post the results on leaderboards. This will encourage players to replay memories.

That sounds like a very good idea, except I'd prefer if that was only done for assassination missions. It's not that other missions aren't worth it, it's more that assassination missions need to be designed a whole lot better than any other missions in the game.

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I agree with you, Vesferatu - and I have the same issues with getting agitated with the timer or whatever, and just not enjoying the gameplay. It's a much better experience ignoring the 100% synch requirements in general. I like that they are there for those who are turned on by it, but it would be nice to have at least one runthrough without thinking about them. Perhaps they should add an option to turn synch requirements off (along with difficulty levels, fer cryin' out loud!).

Sorry for rambling. I'm doing this instead of feeding the cats and they're letting me know how they feel about it. FLAE's eye roll

"Now you shall get an earful of my beloved sword! Behold, Pillow Talk! Let's rock, baby!"

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Ah, thank you for the explanation Vesferatu. I understand now, and am in full agreement.