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*Spoilers* End of the game *spoilers*

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I'm pretty sure Desmond actually did stab Lucy and that it wasn't a vision of the future or something. Does anyone else have any proof to the contrary? I'd LOVE to be proved wrong, poor Lucy!

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My reaction after the ending:

*credits roll*
I stand up.. stagger forward, drop my controller on the carpet.
"Lucy.. n-no.."

EDIT: As well as all the other WTF stuff that happened that I couldn't stop thinking about.

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And what about the dialogue partway through the credits? Some templars might have tracked them to the vault and put Desmond back in the animus. Perhaps they'll keep him in there like they did with subject 16. I wouldn't mind if the game became a psychological thriller type game when (if) Desmond is allowed to leave the animus. Perhaps Desmond will kill himself ( = ( I know just hear me out) and be taken to "Heaven" where he meets Minerva. Who knows? The possibilities are endless!

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For some reason i would love for AC3 to include Desmond being driven insane like subject 16. And the templars must have put him back in the animus. Or else you can't free-roam as ezio, right?

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Lucy is alive...
Look on the ACB feedback Thread... Ive left a Theory and explained why

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The person at the end "going into shock" is probably the player. The Animus you're looking through is your console. In order to stop the shock I was in, they had to "put me back in the machine." I was sad Sad

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I see no reason to believe it was the Templars who are putting Desmond back into the animus. For starters, the guys in the credits were genuinely concerned about him. Lucy would likely have relayed the apple's coordinates to Assassin HQ since that was the ultimate goal of putting Desmond through all those memories in the first place.

Additionally, the Templars would no long need him in the animus if they found him and the apple. And why put him back into a memory that isn't useful to them?

Then there's the fact that the GUI is clearly Baby and not that of the Templar animi.

Furthermore, Lucy made it clear that they weren't being followed. If the Templars were to be arriving to catch them in the act, that certainly would have been shown as part of the scene given how major it would be. It wouldn't be left as a little mid-credits blurb from two nobodies.

Need I go on? Smile

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Good points but if you can, please go on.

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s1lv3r4554551n wrote:
Good points but if you can, please go on.

I don't see any reason to, given the lack of any arguments to the contrary. Smile

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* "put him back into the machine" In theory the assassins said that...
*I think Templars want Desmond to find "The Apple"
*There is lots of use with Desmond still
*Juno sought Lucy as an enemy because Juno has the 6th sense knowledge... she sees the future "know only when it's too late"
*Many moments where Lucy could have been kidnap in Sequence 6-7 couldn't see her... For all I know Lucy was outside when she was looking at the moon. too suspicious
*Did you see the red trail with Eagle Vision leading to the sewer in Monteriggioni...

Vidic wants Desmond alive he even says it at the end of AC2

Theories is what keeps threads going....

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fyiByas wrote:
* "put him back into the machine" In theory the assassins said that...
*I think Templars want Desmond to find "The Apple"
*There is lots of use with Desmond still
*Juno sought Lucy as an enemy because Juno has the 6th sense knowledge... she sees the future "know only when it's too late"
*Many moments where Lucy could have been kidnap in Sequence 6-7 couldn't see her... For all I know Lucy was outside when she was looking at the moon. too suspicious
*Did you see the red trail with Eagle Vision leading to the sewer in Monteriggioni...

Vidic wants Desmond alive he even says it at the end of AC2

Theories is what keeps threads going....

Not a single one of those make a case. Smile

The red trail means nothing. It's just to show you how to get back if you get lost, since there is no map in the present. The path was there since the first time Desmond got into the animus and did the virtual training. You can leave afterward and the path is there. It has nothing to do with Lucy. And sorry, but...two Lucy's? No offense, but that's just ridiculous. FLAE's eye roll

The Templars wanted the apple. Now that it was lying on the floor in front of Desmond, they wouldn't need him in the animus anymore. Certainly not in Ezio's life after Ezio stashed the apple in the very location they were already at.

It's already been made clear our heroes weren't being followed. We would have seen the Templars and definitely Vidic in the final scene. There's no way they'd pass up the chance to show them if they were to be there. We would have had some concrete foreshadowing.

You guys can make up wild theories all you like but you're wasting your energy. This is something that will definitely be answered in the opening to AC3, and having Desmond being back at Abstergo would just confuse too many people. You're entirely basing all this off a couple throw-away lines in the middle of the credits, and your theory is pretty elaborate. You're putting way too much effort into this. Ask yourself this – would they really do that for this game? Have they gone to such lengths to make such an obscurity into something completely game-changing before in this series? And would they honestly not have taken the effort to use the Abstergo UI in the animus if that's where we're supposed to be, considering that the graphics are already in the game? The attention in this series is to detail, not obscurity.

Go ahead and believe what you like, but I'll go with the obvious answer. And when AC3 comes out, I'll be proven right. Big smile

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im on the same page as Asaic lol. Any theory i've made about video games always prove to be wrong, so il lwait and let ubisoft answer my question

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The blood trail was from Ezio during the attack on Monteriggioni, when he and Claudia escaped throught the Sanctuary.

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Yeah, in forums I tend to rant on subjects that probably make no sense so sorry, and looking back on what I wrote made me look like an idiot Drunk

The Ending with Desmond was just too odd for me and obscure however it's a weird twist...

I totally understand what you mean Asaic. I know I was proven wrong....

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Asaic wrote:
You guys can make up wild theories all you like but you're wasting your energy. This is something that will definitely be answered in the opening to AC3

Heh Big smile Don't be so harsh on Byas, after all, we've got approximately 2 years until ACIII. I bet a bunch of crazy-assed theories will show up. Anyway you've proved your opinion to be veridical Asaic. After that, it's around 705 days, 3 hours and 53 minutes until November of 2012.

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I listened to the bit of dialog during the credits and, originally i thought one of the voices was Vidic but i was mistaken(sounds a lot like him though). Although if it is the other Assassins that find Desmond and Lucy then the theory about using the Shroud to heal Lucy is still possible.

If you played Project Legacy then you find out the Shroud of Eden(which apparently was discovered under Monteriggioni) is lock up in an Assassin stronghold in Agnadello. Maybe it's still there and that is where the Assassin HQ is. Desmond does ask about the HQ so perhaps that is an indication we'll get to see it in AC3.

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In Ac2 i called the theory of memories within memories, that we are Desmonds ancestor. I have a feeling that one might come true, and I really hope it doesnt

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The guy in the credits was probably William from the e-mails with Shaun and Lucy. William clearly shows concern in the e-mails over the fate of Desmond and in the credits there's also a sense of urgency in his voice.

What I want to know is how Desmond was found and put back in the animus, and how all of this relates to Russia (because that's where we're assuming the next game takes place). It's all very confusing for me at this point.

Something else, is Cesare really dead? It's never really clear as to whether or not he dies (no man can kill him, but maybe gravity did...), and the ending of Sequence 9 was extremely vague. I'm still not sure whether or not he actually died, but if ACB really is the last we're seeing of Ezio, then I guess we'll never know...

There's still so much more that I don't understand at this point that hopefully becomes more clear over the next two years. I really don't want to wait that long to find out what exactly happened to Desmond, Lucy, Ezio, and Cesare.

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The real-life Cesare Borgia died at the seige of Viana in 1507, after being exiled to Spain in 1504.

But then the real-life Cesare Borgia didn't have a vengeful Assassin, hell-bent on killing him, coming after him...

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i'm still a little disappointed about Cesare
apart from the beginning and the end there was hardly any interaction with him unlike Rodrigo in AC2

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Guys, is it really likely that desmond is being played through an animus when ubisoft has gone to incredible lengths to make sure almost no HUD or markers appear when you're playing him? If he was being remembered through an animus in the future, it would probably have a better UI, not NO UI.

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There's no reason to think that Cesare is still alive. We're done with Ezio so there's no reason to have him still be alive for story reasons. The real historical figure died during that very battle, so I think it's safe to say that Ubisoft wanted him to die during that battle in the game as well.

What is the deal with Russia? Nothing in the game has even mentioned Russia (that I recall hearing/reading). Is this based on the graphic novels? If so, I wouldn't bet on that. Smile

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Am I the only one who really liked that battle? It wasn't really an assassination and it wasn't all that hard, but it was probably the most cinematic thing we've seen in AC before, and Cesare was not really supposed to be hard to beat. It was more of a showcase of how amazing of a fighter Ezio has become, a fitting goodbye to him. And the part where you're fighting and the cannon balls come and take out you and the guards was so intense! My only problem with brotherhood is that the elite guards can't block hidden blade counters. If they could do that, I would actually be afraid of them, as long as I couldn't chain executions into them either. So fighting Cesare was what I wanted fighting an elite guard to be like, except with less health for the guard, obviously.

And Desmond's section after that was some fun platforming indeed.

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The voice(s) in the credits had to be Assassins, because:
1. Earlier in the game, Desmond asks everyone about the modern-day Assassin leaders and if they'll ever be able to meet them
2. The voices were none that we've heard in either of the other AC games.
3. They obviously seemed to care enough to keep Desmond alive.
4. After it was stated that Desmond was going into shock, the voices said to put him into the Animus. Perhaps this is a way to save Desmond from the Apple of Eden's effects...or whatever. You get what I mean. I'm having trouble putting that into words. Puzzled

About Cesare: He said "No man can kill me!" Ezio threw him off the side of the wall. Looks like it's the end of him, doesn't it? Then why did the next cinematic have Cesare repeat those exact words over again? This is my theory:
Rodrigo "blessed" Cesare with the Apple and gave him immortality. Cesare's constant reminder in the end cinematic was foreshadowing something.
If he was just unable to be killed by any man, then falling off of the wall surely killed him and that cinematic was pointless.
If he really was immortal by the Apple, then he may be the modern-day head of the Templars. Now that's a twist!

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Everything historical about the AC universe is played off the fact that most of your targets lives wheren't recorded day by day. For all we know an assassin may have been hunting Rodrigo and Cesare Borgia, who knows? Also Rodrigo Borgia was poisoned by Cesare IRL just like in the game.

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Actually, he died of a disease. Many people believed it was cesare's work, but there's no proof of that and cesare seemed upset at his death IRL.

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I doubt Rodrigo gave him immortality, as he wouldn't be stupid enough to try and poison him. He was just arrogant.

I agree with the HUD idea, when you pause the game in the animus as well you see the menu as Desmond would see it. However when you pause as Desmond, its some cheap half ass menu that clearly isnt an animus menu. What I dont get is when they say put him BACK in the animus, that is why people thought Desmond had already been in it, or someone else had and the whole stabbing Lucy thing was some kind of memory or dream.

I think Desmond may have been reliving that event, maybe for clues on what to do. If you can look up your ancestors memories, surely you can relive your own?

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Oh I just thought of something, maybe we are looking too much into the put him back in the animus quote. I think its simply an excuse to let us play as Ezio after the game is over. In AC1 Desmond is left alone and can go back inside. In AC2 Desmond has the animus in the truck and can use it during the trip

What if they simply wanted to continue with this pattern and wanted to give us an excuse to keep playing as Ezio instead of making a new file for 100% synch?

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That's exactly it. The reasons for getting us back in the animus in all three games are just throw-away plot elements. They're not meant to mean anything.

Think about it – having the animus up and running while in a truck? Seriously? They need all those servers and all that other equipment. Think about the Abstergo lab with all those super-cooled server boxes and the hideouts in Florence and Monteriggioni packed with equipment; the animus isn't something you can just set up in an alley (or truck, in this case) and use it like a toy. It's just to let us play more. Smile They had to have Desmond and Rebecca in the back of a truck with Baby in there just to not make the ending of AC2 too ridiculous, and it was certainly silly to see. Big smile

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I didn't read anything into Cesare's "No MAN can kill me" comment, the PoE can do a lot of things but it can't grant immortality(just knowlage). What i gathered was Cesare saw himself as a divine leader who was destined to conquer all of Italy.

Whether it was the PoE that told he couldn't die or something else it doesn't really matter, he's DEAD.

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Jedted wrote:
I didn't read anything into Cesare's "No MAN can kill me" comment, the PoE can do a lot of things but it can't grant immortality(just knowlage). What i gathered was Cesare saw himself as a divine leader who was destined to conquer all of Italy.

Whether it was the PoE that told he couldn't die or something else it doesn't really matter, he's DEAD.

Agreed. It was no different than the ramblings of any other self-important would-be dictator who believes he is fulfilling the will of a greater power that appointed him as their apostle. It's all in his head. Killing his father, the pope, was proof of his manic delusion.

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Well, I can kinda see why he did it, his dad did try to poison him.

Anyway there could be a chance that the apple does give immortality. The last codex page has Altair leaving you hanging, not knowing if he looked at the apple again or now. Why would they do this? It could be nothing ( probably is) but there might be something more to it that will be brought up in AC3

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Even if the apple does give immortality, from what we've seen of the POE's, you have to be in contact with it to make it work. Unless Chesare has some version of the bleeding effect, which makes no sense since he barely used the apple from what I gathered in the story, he gave it to Rodrigo for safekeeping. I highly doubt that his claims of immortality were genuine, I think that it just kept looping over and over because Ezio dwelled on the last words he heard from him or something. But why would ezio dwell on them if he didn't think they could be partially true? AUUUGHHHH!

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Calvar The Blade wrote:
I think that it just kept looping over and over because Ezio dwelled on the last words he heard from him or something. But why would ezio dwell on them if he didn't think they could be partially true? AUUUGHHHH!

Maybe he was trying to make sense of Cesare's madness. Like how Altair heard Al Mualim's final words in his head after killing him.

Interesting side note: I wonder how long after the events of AC:B did Ezio return to the Sanctuary. Desmond sees the vision of an older Ezio and says "he must've came back here way after the attack", pressumably to leave the clue for the password to the Collosseum Vault.

Also, it was a little unclear but did it look like he was wearing the Armor of Altair? If it was after killing Cesare and hidding the PoE then why wouldn't he have the Armor of Brutus at that point?

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Maybe the armor didnt get destroyed, he just didnt have time to pick it up as he left. When he returned, he put it on again as maybe he prefers it. I am little grey on this area, im not sure if it has been confirmed if it was destroyed or not

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Jack-Reacher wrote:
Maybe the armor didnt get destroyed, he just didnt have time to pick it up as he left. When he returned, he put it on again as maybe he prefers it. I am little grey on this area, im not sure if it has been confirmed if it was destroyed or not

That's true, it is supposedly super strong as the design for it came from the PoE. It's possible just the Robe part of it was damaged the armor plating is still intact.

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I'm sure the armor was fine. The place was in ruins and he didn't exactly have the time to go picking through the rubble when the town was under siege.

It's also limited by standard storytelling practices. It was too early to reveal his new Rome outfit or the armor of Brutus, so they just went with an outfit we already knew about.

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Calvar The Blade wrote:
Even if the apple does give immortality, from what we've seen of the POE's, you have to be in contact with it to make it work.

Has anyone noticed that Cesare was a powerful man who seemed very straight-edged and fit, yet when Ezio obtains the PoE and Cesare is about to fight him, he coughs (as if in pain), holds back, and sends his guards after you. He seemed very sure he'd kill Ezio himself, but after that cough forcing him to keel over almost, he felt vulnerable. Perhaps he's invincible to any man's attacks if he's near or holding the PoE.

His words at the end could just be his final exclamation of shock that he was beaten when all along he had this feeling of ultimate power.

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It's because last time we saw him he had been poisoned, and he was locked up for the intervening four years.

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Maybe I'm just suffering the Bleeding Effect, but I'm going crazy. You know why I believe I'm going crazy?
Because my mind just thought of something insane.

What if.. Lucy is Subject 16?
Now, I know that's impossible.. but still.

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Well that means that Lucy is actually the animus, and we are a simulation of ourselves

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Jack-Reacher wrote:
Well that means that Lucy is actually the animus, and we are a simulation of ourselves

That would be... messed up.
We are a simulation of ourselves?
How would that work?

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DarkAlphabetZoup wrote:
Jack-Reacher wrote:
Well that means that Lucy is actually the animus, and we are a simulation of ourselves

That would be... messed up.
We are a simulation of ourselves?
How would that work?

In other words. Desmond would be reliving his own memories... that just happened... somehow...

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"Lucy is actually the animus"
What....!!!

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Lol I was wondering why you picked up on my simulation comment when I said something even more ridiculous in the same post.

If the animus can relive ancestors memories surely you can relive your own memories, which is another reason why the next game doesnt have to be Desmond's descendant.

Also im beginning to doubt the stabbing actually happened. The apple gives off illusions, this was a huge point in AC1. Al Muslim showed Altair this by stabbing him, but some random crap happened and it never really happened or something. I thought this was also the case with Ezio as he had the apple on him, but he tells Mario it was the armor.

Anyway because time seemed to freeze, I have a feeling it was sort of like a vision, like how Ezio found Chezary.

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Jack-Reacher wrote:
Lol I was wondering why you picked up on my simulation comment when I said something even more ridiculous in the same post.

If the animus can relive ancestors memories surely you can relive your own memories, which is another reason why the next game doesnt have to be Desmond's descendant.

Also im beginning to doubt the stabbing actually happened. The apple gives off illusions, this was a huge point in AC1. Al Muslim showed Altair this by stabbing him, but some random crap happened and it never really happened or something. I thought this was also the case with Ezio as he had the apple on him, but he tells Mario it was the armor.

Anyway because time seemed to freeze, I have a feeling it was sort of like a vision, like how Ezio found Chezary.

You're uh...you're meaning to misspell all of that to make a point, right?

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No I just felt like it

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Jack-Reacher wrote:
If the animus can relive ancestors memories surely you can relive your own memories, which is another reason why the next game doesnt have to be Desmond's descendant.

While the science behind the animus is pure fiction, it could still stand to reason that the genetic memories are only stored in the DNA in which we pass on, rather than in every cell of our body (which would make even less sense than genetic memory already does).

If that were the case, then short of making a..."donation" into a cup and having the animus work off of that, I don't think it would work.

Man, there's an image. Tongue

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Asaic wrote:
Jack-Reacher wrote:
If the animus can relive ancestors memories surely you can relive your own memories, which is another reason why the next game doesnt have to be Desmond's descendant.

While the science behind the animus is pure fiction, it could still stand to reason that the genetic memories are only stored in the DNA in which we pass on, rather than in every cell of our body (which would make even less sense than genetic memory already does).

If that were the case, then short of making a..."donation" into a cup and having the animus work off of that, I don't think it would work.

Man, there's an image. Tongue

Hahahah!
That would be pretty intense.. viewing the DNA and memories of your.. well.. your... oh god..

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I think I found a good explanation about the ending....

Here's a quote from a youtuber.

"desmond is supposed to find eve and have a child with her which is what subject 16 was talking about. and she is in the garden of eden also what he meant. desmonds child is suppose to save the world from the templars. lucy was never meant to be desmonds love which is why she had to be killed because she interfered with desmonds destiny"

I thought this could explain alot but its all theory of course.

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That's actually a pretty good idea. lol

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